Pugging at Low Levels, part 2

As far as pug groups go, I’ve had a mix of good and bad pugs so far.  The tanks have generally been good.  Even at level 25-30 we’ve been able to group up the mobs and AoE them down.  We’ve had a couple of weirdos, but mostly smooth.  I’d say the number of obnoxious jerks is higher in my low level runs so far than in my level 80 heroics, but its too small a sample size to draw a conclusion.

My big obstacle has been Gnomeregan.  It creates a problem that interrupts the smooth operation of the Dungeon Finder system. The problem is that mobs just inside the entrance respawn fairly quickly.  Lets say your group is 3/4 of the way through Gnomer, and someone drops from the group.  You re-queue and get a replacement, who is ported in at the entrance.  Unfortunately, there are elite mobs between him and you.  Your only choice is to run back and re-clear some trash.

In the efficiency-at-all-costs environment that exists in the game right now, most players are not willing to make that effort, and so the group falls apart.  This has happened to me 4 of the 5 times I was put into Gnomeregan as a random dungeon.

What will happen when I am high enough level to do Maraudon?  Or BRD?  Those places are enormous and mazelike.  I can imagine someone getting ported in as a replacement, seeing that they need to make a 20 minute run from the entrance to the group, and just dropping out.


Another interesting thought.  When you run instances at level 80, you have the expectation that the other players in your group have learned their abilities through the leveling process.  That’s why level 80 players who only do 1k dps are often disparaged or insulted.

What about at level 25?  If there is a player who clearly doesn’t know how to play the class, what do you do?  It *could* be a brand new player.  Or it *could* be a guy with five 80s who is on his 12th alt, and should know better.

In one of my runs a staff dropped with +spellpower.  I indicated in party chat that I was going to roll Need.  The druid healer started yelling at me!  He said that spellpower was no good for a mage because it only gave +crit and mages didn’t need that.  I replied that Intellect gave crit, and that spellpower was good for any caster class.  He rambled on and on… wrong the whole time.

If this is a new player, this kind of misunderstanding is understandable.  If its an alt of a high level toon, its terrible.  How to react?

I simply passed on the staff (knowing that there are many more such weapons in the game that I can get without loot drama).  I told him to mouse over his intellect stat and see what it says about crit.  And I dropped it.  Maybe he learned something there.  Maybe he is long past learning such things.  I don’t know.

I could take a teacher-like approach here and share my game knowledge in hopes that I make some difference in their game experience.  Or I could just sit quietly and allow the ignorance to contiue, especially since they are not even players on my server so I’ll never hear from them again.


16 Responses to “Pugging at Low Levels, part 2”

  1. 1 Cheres
    January 22, 2010 at 11:06 am

    Even at level 75 I’m still finding that I’m learning how to PvE with my druid in a group situation. Leveling I I did mostly solo questing and PvP, there was no cross realm LFG. I tend to still lag far behind the other AE classes but I’m getting better.

    I do however know that spellpower is good for any mana user so at least I know better with gear 🙂

  2. January 22, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Spellpower is good for hunters? (mana users) *poke*

  3. 3 Adam
    January 22, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    I’m levelling a mage now as well, up to level 38, and I’m having the same pugging experiences. I have always been very carefull with needing and greeding but in these pugs if you need something, just need it. If you start explaining yourself then the general moron will see that as a sign that you shouldn’t have the item. He would never explain himself so you must be up to something, right?

    I’m also loving the tanks that go all uber and pick up every mob they can find but have no idea how to hold aggro when the mage lets rip with a nice AoE barrage on his big collection of mobs.

  4. 4 Cheres
    January 22, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    All stats are good for hunters 😉

    I was in AN with a tank so bad I wound up bear tanking with no tank gear and doing a better job

  5. 5 Thimble
    January 22, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    I really wanted to believe that instance leveling was going to be faster than questing, yet on my (now level 40) shaman, I found that it’s just not the case. I’m specced elemental and willing to heal so groups come together very quickly. We move fast and don’t wipe in general, and yet, based on the little XP/hr thingy in the corner of titan panel, instancing is only netting about half the XP/hr as questing. Maybe I’m good at questing, or bad at instancing, or maybe it only really works when you’re fully rested. It’s certainly convenient, and nice to be able to just sit in IF or wherever, but it sure doesn’t seem faster. I imagine on a PvP server it’s a godsend, however. I remember leveling my warlock to 60 on Detheroc back in the day, and how awful it was to just get annihilated by some level 60 who was riding by with nothing you could do about it. Nowadays, you never have to participate in any PvP of any kind if you don’t want to, even on a PvP server. Interesting how that works.

  6. 6 Cheres
    January 22, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    If you random instance you get an xp bonus at the end that actually is bumping up your xp per hour, at least according to FuBar. But that’s only if you’re out questing while you’re waiting on a group.

  7. 7 Johnnyboy
    January 23, 2010 at 8:50 am

    I have the exact same problem. I play a rogue but I made a paladin and have been tanking. I’ve been told compared to the other clueless tanks in leather that i’m doing well but I still wipe on gnomer when we’re close to the end. The rogue vanishes and on our run back he ussually leaves because he’s bored. So we go on while we wait for Someone to join but you’re right the mobs spawn fast so we just explain that we aren’t coming. Usually they say something like I still want to roll for loot which results in /votekick from me.

  8. January 23, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    When I queue as a rogue to go into instances, everybody seems better than me, however as a tank I feel superior to other people.


  9. January 25, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    BRD has a totally different problem – it’s artificialy divided into lower and upper parts. Lower ends on Interrogator Gerstahn, which you can kill as a first boss after just a few trash packs. After that you can of course continue and kill whatever else you want, but you can’t get new players as the dungeon is technically finished.

    Upper ends on Emperor. There’s nothing in between, and we’re talking BRD with its half a hundred of bosses.

  10. January 25, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    I suppose that I should do a scientific experiment where I level two characters – one by questing and the other by instancing – and compare. However, I have already done all of these quests several times so I can’t bring myself to do them again.

    I’ll have to stick with my gut feeling that this way of leveling FEELS faster and easier than questing. Maybe its the fact that I never have to run from one end of a zone to the other. Maybe its the fact that I never have to wait for a mobs to respawn for a “kill 10 of these” quest.

    In any case, this is better.

  11. January 25, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    This week I had an instance which had no tanks in it. Someone (I think it was a rogue) queued as tank to get an instant invite, but then we all stood there going, “who’s the tank?” lol

    Also had an instance where a paladin queued as a tank, then got to the instance and said that he wanted to dps. When the fury warrior (who had queued as dps) refused to tank, then pally left. Someone in the group said he had seen that pally do this before.

  12. 14 Liquidhealz
    January 27, 2010 at 11:53 am

    I am lvling my first alt, a BE disc priest (Liquidhealz), currently lvl 70. My main is an 80 undead rogue (Liquidmojo). lvling my rogue was painful. Running instances were generally a total time suck, so I barely ran any until after I hit 80. As a result of my lack of instance experience I was primarily a pvp rogue. This left me with questing to lvl. Questing seemed to drag on and on and each lvl ding was a major milestone. By the time I hit 80, I was so sick of quests that I could barely pull myself away from pvp long enough to do dailes for rep.

    I just started my priest a couple weeks ago and it has been smooth sailing. I have 3 pieces of heirloom gear. The chest and shoulders give 10% xp boost each. I also got the mace, because I had more stone keeper shards than I knew what to do with. (FYI: those useless stone keepers can also be converted to bind-to-account honor, that you can then mail to your alt) As a healer my queue times are generally short, but I entertain myself with quests while I wait. I barely have to do more than 3 or 4 quests in any given zone before I lvl up to the next zone. Between running instances and Alterac Valley, I have been cranking along at record pace.

    Regarding running random instances with folks from other realms, I have actually seen the same players again and again. Don’t think that because you are grouped with people that are not on your realm that you won’t see them again. Assuming you are lvling at the same pace as them, you very well may get queued up with them again.

    I word of warning for those about to hit the 60+ range. You are going to be subjected to a stretch of the absolute worst DK tanks ever. As a healer, this is a total nightmare. They can’t hold aggro, they can’t take a hit, and they want to sprint through the instances at record pace. As a disc healer, I shield the tank and toss in a heal here and there until I can refresh the sheild. I am very mana efficient when healing like this and my tanks hover between 90-100% health through trash pulls. Unfortunately, if the tank can’t hold aggro I shift from a tank healer to a raid healer. disc priests are not efficient raid healers and I have to spam heals and shields on all 5 of us. This results in needing to drink after every trash pull. Now that I have dinged 70, I have re-entered the world of pally and druid tanks… thankfully.

    Happy lvling to all,

  13. 15 Argathne
    January 29, 2010 at 5:27 am

    Uh i hear what you are saying Din. I got into a horrible Gnomer group on my Hunter (Yesmoardwarf) Pretty much there were 3 guildies on a different server. 1 tank,1 healer and 1 dps. Anyhow. Half way threw the instance they started to act rude to a Ret pally and myself. So i shake it off since i wanted to down the instance for a quest. Anyhow as we get to the last few pulls they decide to vote to boot the pally. Knowing he didnt do anything i denyed this. And so did they. But after the vote failed they blamed it on me. Now the pally obviously angry decided to vote to kick me. And the rest of the group happily accepted that vote. Not blaming the pally for anything but those other three need to learn not to be total idiots in instances. Even at a low level.

  14. 16 Alan / Falcon
    March 18, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Mara is fine, it’s split into manageable size pieces. Just remember to down some alcohol before you reach Princess. BRD is fine if you want to skip half the bosses along the way and are okay with large AE pulls. In fact, the AE pulls are the norm in 90% of the leveling instances I’ve been in, which is the bane of the Rogue’s existence as far as I’m concerned. I do what I can with Blade Flurry etc., but I can never shake the feeling that I’m being out DPS’d by Consecration just due to the huge number of mobs I can’t hit all at once.

    Regarding “running back to the entrance”, I just ask people to Teleport Out and then Teleport In to the dungeon. It gets the group together in one place and saves half of the running back and forth time. Fortunately respawns aren’t really a problem except in Gnomer and BRD (in my experience, and that BRD run was a very long one). In Sunken Temple I’ll volunteer to port out / port in to guide the player to the group because who wants to try to explain where you are in that place?

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