21
Oct
12

DPS lament

I know this will sound like qq, but its not really.  I know that I am behind on the gear and leveling curve, and I’m looking for someone to tell me if things are going to get better.

In BC, Wrath, and Cataclysm, I was always at the top of the damage meters.  Even when rogues have had their ups and downs through the past three expansions, I’ve always been able to milk a lot of dps out of my assassination spec.  The rotation comes as naturally to me as walking.  Over the past 6 years I have developed a reputation within my guild for big dps numbers.

As I leveled from 85-90 doing normal dungeons, nothing had changed.  I led in damage on almost every run.  On single target fights I was way above other classes.

Then I hit 90… and its all come crashing down.

Even in guild runs with others who are not wearing any raid gear, I have yet to lead a single heroic instance in damage.  If I really push it I can sometimes finish in 2nd, but more often its third and sometimes its 4th behind the tank.  I have been beaten by every hunter I have run with.  I was beaten handily by a Blood DK in all PVP gear.  I’m having to apologize to guildies for my dps.  I feel like I’m being carried.

I can still be competitive on single-target fights.  I think that’s going to be a gear issue.  However, on AoE fights its just terrible.  I am energy starved beyond belief.

I remember when Blizzard announced that Fan of Knives would grant combo points, and we could spend those on our new attack Crimson Tempest.  We all got excited about a true AoE rotation.  Well, I’m lucky to get a single Crimson Tempest off in an AoE fight.  It takes so long to build up energy after each FoK, even with my Rupture running, that almost everything is dead by the time I get to use CT.  That system is simply not working for me.

I tried reforging to haste to boost my energy regen, going against the advice of simulators.  It hasn’t helped.  Sometimes it feels like I can leave to get a sandwich between attacks because my energy takes so long to build up.

My question, then, for rogues who have already spent some time gearing up.  Does it get better?  Does energy regen catch up at higher gear levels?  Is our dps competitive?  Do I have to switch to Combat for Blade Flurry on trash packs?  Is that my only option?

.

P.S. – I’m wondering if my legendary daggers might still be the way to go.  Despite the lower iLvL, Assassination gets so many procs from those daggers, and a proc lets me launch up to three consecutive finishers.

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14 Responses to “DPS lament”


  1. October 21, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    It gets better. No immediately, and I think there’s a lot for me to learn about AOE fights still, but it gets better.

    For Combat, blade flurry with maybe a nice killing spree does fun things for short fights. For longer fights, and especially for more mobs, fan of knives + CT works pretty well. In a raid finder the other night, two rogues were top of the AOE meters, and I started looking at their damage to see what was up. It was all about spreading DP.

  2. October 21, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    I think you’re on the right track – haste is the missing ingredient. I feel energy starved compared with Dragon Soul. It will come in higher tiers. Blood DK dps is insane.

  3. 3 Dreadheart
    October 21, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    I’ve definitely been wondering the same things as a combat rogue. Energy regen feels very sluggish at the moment. My gear is still pretty bad though (ilvl 455) and , like you, I am hoping that once I start equipping some raid gear I will see things start to change. I’m not sure if it’s just a symptom of being so highly geared at the end of cata and having to spam combo point generators constantly just to prevent energy capping, and now coming back down to the beginning of the expansion and readjusting to low haste values.

    I understand that there has to be room for the class to grow and build in power as the expansion progresses. But I certainly haven’t felt like I’ve been particulary competetive in the heroic dungeons, which is worrying to me. It makes me wonder what the advantage of rolling a rogue is now, when you can roll a monk and have a dynamic play style somewhat similar to a rogue’s that also allows for the versatility of dps, tanking and healing.

    • October 22, 2012 at 6:19 am

      In one heroic runs yesterday I had one fight with adds where I felt like I had hit all of my attacks just right. At the end, I saw that I had broken 40k dps on that fight. Excited? Well, the monk in the group was at 110k.

      And on top of it, he won the roll on the dps leather.

      I’m not thinking about abandoning the class after all these years. Still, its a bit disheartening.

  4. 5 Marek
    October 22, 2012 at 6:23 am

    Yeah, waiting for energy is like watching paint dry. However, if you keep with the rotation, passive dmg does put our numbers in an okay place. Historically, we scale very well with gear through the expansion, but the initial release is painful. I do feel it getting a bit better as I add each new gear piece. However, I don’t expect it to feel comfortable until after ilvl 500 or so with a solid pair of trinkets. Being combat this abundancy of Mastery/Crit and lack of haste is aggravating.

    Also, tanks will usually lead in dungeons due to uptime moreso than true dps, just grind them, do reasonable and worry about dps meters in Raid.

  5. 7 Cick3
    October 23, 2012 at 1:32 am

    I’m currently at ilvl 464 on my Assasination rogue, and I can tell you, it does get better, I was very let down when i hit 90, same as you.
    I’ve been playing on my rogue since 2005 and always been at the top of the meters, and when i started to grind heroics, it wasn’t unusual to see me in the bottom 2.

    But now that my gear has improved, so has my status in the meters, i ran a LFR a few days ago, and I was rocking between 5-7th place among all the damage dealers, settling at 6th when i got my ilvl 476 ring from the 2nd boss.

    And regarding AoE, in heroics, FoK is unfortunately the way to go, with the odd Crimson tempest if the pack isnt dead already (consider using CT with only 4 combopoints, it does improve your dps ever so slightly due to the bleed effect).

    But in LFR, or raiding in general, you wont be having problems using FoK and finishing with CT, at least 2-3 times on full combopoints., thus moving upward on the meters.

    TLDR; It gets better!

  6. 8 Adendris
    October 25, 2012 at 5:02 am

    I’m sitting at 472 on my Rogue, and I still feel energy starved. I’ve got the hit/expertise caps, but the class just feels.. slow. Sluggish. I still love my Rogue, don’t get me wrong, but I definitely feel it that I’m in the phase where my gear sucks, time to wait a tier or so until my haste is back to where it needs to be. I felt the same way during Cata. I didn’t really feel like I was doing the damage I should be doing until late into Firelands.

    And about the Legendary daggers, don’t go back to them. The proc rate drops considerably once you hit 90, based on everything I’ve heard.

  7. 9 Zandt
    October 25, 2012 at 10:14 am

    I finally hit 90 this past weekend and I feel like I just ran into a brick wall, so I definitely feel the same as you. I know I’m lacking in haste (and hit, and crit, and expertise for that matter) but still the rogue just feels….sluggish this expansion. The rogue has been my main but I’m almost thinking of switching mains just due to the fact that the rogue feels boring to play now, which is a shame because that’s initially why I chose a rogue, because of its fun playstyle. I didn’t care if they were doing the best DPS or worst DPS…I just want a class that is fun to play, and right now, the rogue is not. It’s just boring. And by the way, a rogue’s AOE is STILL a joke. FoK and CT are so wimpy beyond belief, don’t even bother wasting energy and CP on them.

  8. October 25, 2012 at 10:29 am

    I am 480 and I am energy starved.

    We are strong in a two add fight, like The Stone Guardian, first boss of Mogu’shan Vaults, but that is the very only boss reason i go combat. If there is no use for blade flurry, there is no use for combat.

    In all other bosses i go Assassination, and it’s a much better single-target dps/dmg, but what happen is, as an assassination my dps just go higher in the execute phase (boss below 35% health), before that, i tend to be the 3rd on the dps/dmg metters, but at the end of the fight, i tend to be 1st or 2nd (usually near the first).

    I still don’t have the 2 iter pieces, but i guess that, once i get it, i will top meters once again.

    • October 26, 2012 at 1:21 pm

      What simcraft says about my raiding group:
      warlock : 68797 dps
      shadow priest : 64939 dps
      DK Frost : 78608 dps
      Rogue (me) : 74110 dps
      Mage Fire : 75234 dps

      What recount / world of logs says:
      http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/223316/

      • October 26, 2012 at 1:49 pm

        I’ve never been a believer in simulationcraft. At least, I’ve always been able to outperform expectations, much like what you show. Real fights rarely go as smoothly as a Patchwerk fight.

        I wonder how much of that is due to complexity. The rogue rotation has never been terribly complicated. I think that in the past other classes such as shadow priests and warlocks had to keep up a much more complicated weaving of cooldowns and DoTs to maximize dps. In that case, players usually would not be able to meet simulationcraft expectations.

        I’m just speculating, but perhaps with the general reduction in complexity of the game, its easier for other classes to perform closer to simulated performance.

  9. 13 Simon
    November 23, 2012 at 2:57 am

    It’s odd,
    I’m a sub rogue, and was also very low on DPS in my early 90 times.
    What’s odd is i don’t feel energy starved, i feel it’s a very natural pace.
    I’m still only in blues, except the Sha of Anger boots.
    I put out around 35~40 DPS in heroic dungeouns, depending on teamates :) – It seems to be decent i think.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/auchindoun/Cushin/advanced

    I’ve reforged most of my stats to hit and expertise, although i just got some new gear not long ago, so I’ll have to look into my reforging again at some point :)
    Plus I’m lacking all enchants and gems, I’m guessing putting that in / on would raise the DPS quite alot.
    My rotation have changed quite a bit since Cataclysm, with the new “Anticipation” talent, i can really get the full benefit from “Honor Amongst Thieves” and such. Back in the day i would pull off my finisher on 4 CP, so i wouldn’t miss out on the crit CPs (Assassination), but now it just seems natural to only fire off things on max CP.

    Starters :
    Ambush > Hemo > Rupture > Backstab > SnD

    This seems to work well for me, gets rupture on with full duration, SnD normally comes on with 2~3 CP depending on team crits and my own crit. Plus using the “Shadow Focus” makes my Ambush free, so everything is really fast, and doesn’t starve me.


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Armory

Dinaer - 90 Assassination Rogue (US - Sen'Jin)
Derence - 90 Prot/Ret Paladin (US - Sen'Jin)
Metius - 90 Shadow Priest (US - Sen'Jin)
Liebnitz - 90 Arcane Mage (US - Sen'Jin)
Fastad - 90 Subtlety Rogue (US - Sen'Jin)
Darishin - 90 Resto/Balance Druid (US - Sen'Jin)
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