21
Dec
10

Rogues… Discuss

I’m not at the level cap yet, so I an not yet able to say how rogues are playing in heroics and raids.

For you rogues that are already running heroics and raids, how is it going?  Are you happy with your damage output?  Which spec are you playing?  Are you getting a chance to use your sap/stun/blind/kick and other utilities?  Most importantly, is it fun?

Let me know in the comments.  I want to know what to expect when I get to 85 this weekend.

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14 Responses to “Rogues… Discuss”


  1. 1 Cris
    December 21, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Hi Dinear, i’ve been an avid follower of your blog.

    Until now, we have only downed Argaloth in Baradin Hold and the fight is rogue friendly. With my gear a little less than our lock yet i’m just 500dps above him (with me on top the damage meter).

    In heroics, yeah i’m sapping and kicking most of the time. It’s much fun than Wrath but not that sure if the same CC will be done when most of us is having T11 gear.

  2. 3 Reigan
    December 21, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    After lvling my Mage (chargin’ 50g for portals while questing was too much of a gold mine to pass up) I abandoned Assassination (my prev raiding spec) for Sub and have been enjoying it thoroughly.

    The other rogue in my guild, combat, told me how he got punted from a run due to embarrassingly low DPS (for a rogue) by the healer. Dude’s not a scrub rogue, so skill isn’t the problem and its *almost* impossible to screw up ur spec, so also, not likely. Started a mini discussion in gchat others admitted rogue dps seemed low in their groups as well. I’m gonna hopefully get into a couple reg instances before vacation to try for myself. I still see tons of AoE pulls and not many rogue friendly fights, so i wouldn’t be too surprised if my results are similar.

    I forgot how much fun it was to stealth around sappin, pick pocketing, then goin in for the kill. Even doin all that, I’m flyin through quests at a ridiculous rate-zero downtime between fights. If the fast respawn rates throw up more mobs than i can handle, stealth is always available. Don’t know if i’m gonna take the spec to raids, but i’m trying to stumble into a rotation that works for me instead of looking up the optimum one. Figure I’ll evolve into it naturally. Roguin’ has never been more fun. :D

  3. 4 Dreadheart
    December 21, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    I’m really concened about my dps as a combat rogue at the moment.

    I’ve been raiding as a rogue for 4 years and know the class pretty well. Have been on the top of the damage meters since BC and often have other rogues asking for tips on how to get their dps up… so, I don’t suck. But at the moment I definitely feel as though I do.

    My gear is good enough to get me into heroics, but my dps isn’t. I am often beaten by the tank in dps and am finding that I am about 2k (sometimes more) dps below other similarly geared classes. I’m using extra CC abilities during fights, so this will be reducing my dps a little – but not to the extent that I’m seeing. My guild leader has even stated that if I don’t change spec to Mut I won’t be getting a raid position. It’s quite frustrating, because the rotation is the same as it was in wrath – even easier with the removal of BF from the cooldown list – but no matter how I play it, my dps is now very bad as combat. I prefer the combat play style over mutilate though and am happy spending time levelling professions and making gold, for now, rather than running heroics and raiding. Guess I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Blizzard will realise that something needs to be tweaked.

  4. December 22, 2010 at 1:31 am

    Things seem great at the moment – I’ve been raiding as assassination and I’m typically top of our meters in most fights (Halfus, Magmaw, Argolath – Omnatron not so much). The encounters are interesting without being overcomplicated, dynamic enough (well, not argoloth), and mostly have interesting roles for rogues.

    Especially in heroics, good interrupts often make a huge difference, and sap is a very useful CC in every heroic. My trash dps is not as great as some other classes (too much DP ramp up time) but it’s competitive. Each tree also provides a useful raid buff if that’s important to you.

    The difficulty tuning when you start doing heroics in blues and quest greens is absolutely spot on, but I already feel like I outgear them :(

    Smoke bomb is niche in pve but has some interesting los-pull applications (for example, the grounding fields in Vortex Pinnacle), redirect I find myself using a lot on trash or boss fights with swaps involved. Combat readiness is purely a pvp move (but a really good one!)

    TLDR: fun

    • December 22, 2010 at 7:30 am

      Its definitely a change of attitude to start interrupting routinely. I thought I was a die-hard interrupter in Wrath, but running some normal Cata instances yesterday I realized how many casts I let go with the expectation that they are not a problem.

      Someone asked me if I liked my new rogue abilities. So far I have Redirect and Combat Readiness and I have yet to use either of them. I’m hoping for some reason to have them on my bar, someday. And I am looking forward to finding reasons to use Smoke Bomb.

  5. 7 Revolver
    December 22, 2010 at 4:14 am

    Hi,

    as far as I can say it goes very well, we have nice abillities to survice, interrupt and were making huge amount of damage. I’m everytime on #1 in the dmg meters, though i often interrupt with kick, I survive everything cos I use the feint glyph or cloak, i dont use selfheal that often exept in solo pve-ing.

    im combat now cos it has better cds and its easy to play, cos I just use slice and dice and evi, I dont care about bleed and other things, my dps is 14k though.

    greetz

  6. December 22, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    I haven’t done any raiding yet. Got into Cataclysm a little raid so I’m still running heroic dungeons when I can.

    Like what’s already been said, CCs are required at this point since we can’t “power through” any of the dungeons yet so sap is very useful. Also, I’ve been interrupting a lot. It’s practically a requirement for boss encounters.

    DPS-wise, I’ve found Assassination to be better than Combat. I preferred running as the latter for 5-mans back in WotLK and I’ve tried to do the same in Cata but the damage output is simply terrible. EJ said that the DPS difference between the two trees isn’t that high but that hasn’t been in the case in my experience.

  7. 10 Shun Tzu
    December 23, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Hi All,

    I’m assassination rogue and I hit 85 in first Friday after Cataclysm lunch. I’m most interested in PvP but I do my daily HC too. What I can say in PvE is like in early TBC heroics, you need to SAP often, practically at every pack. You need to interrupt cast by Kick, Gouge, Kidney Shot, Vanish – Cheap Shot or to blind a CC break. You need to shiv enraged targets (the crocodile in Lost City of Tol‘Vir I have in mind now). This is fun and not the dumb rotation from wotlk. DPS is good atm, I can hit 14k on spank & tank bosses with vendetta up.

    In PvP I use also the combat readiness which is awesome, this coupled with improved recuperate and deadened nerves give you good survivability. You can redirect 5 combo points into kidney shot for good CC. With smoke bomb you can score a kill if your target is low and you have stun available (no use without), or can be use defensively to avoid range damage or incoming CC.

    Assassination is the only way both PvE and PvP (here with lack of mobility), combat can be use in PvE just if you have better non dagger weapons (but even there lower DPS) and subtlety is no where, useless in PvE (too complicate rotation, low DPS) and in PvP no damage outside of Shadow Dance (which can by negated easily by any class).

    Have fun,

  8. 11 Trisomy21
    December 24, 2010 at 2:23 am

    I was 85 the day after launch and geared pretty quick as my guild required an ilevel of 345 for raiding Cata. Completed all the heroic dungeons and as my gear improved so did my dps. Usually on top, but sometimes out dpsed because of mobility issues.

    Don’t focus on trash dps, as assassination, our DPS really skyrockets in boss fights, especially after 35%, when you go backstab crazy. So glyph and put the energy regen points in backstab!

    I’m loving my rogue lately, so no complaints here. We’re plenty useful for our CC abilities and high DPS. Been finding shiv useful for removing enrage (in Tol’vir croc), kick for spell interrupts and feint for avoiding AoE. Besides that, we actually get to use SAP, KS and Dismantle.

    So, no real complaints here.

  9. December 25, 2010 at 3:45 am

    First, merry Christmas!

    What I’ve found in instances as a mut spec rogue is that typically, I’m chasing our BM boss hunter, and the real killer in our guild group has been an unholy DK.
    Since i’ve been doing all guild runs (gotta love the rep and fun), I’ve been playing a lot. Like a kid with new toys. Sapping at will, and pick pocketing everything I can. There is a lovely health potion we get pickpocketing now, Rogue’s Draught, that’ll hit for 10k health. Not much, but coupled with an alchemist trinket, it’s a 14k potion for free.
    I’ve also got combat, but haven’t been able to do much with it lately because I’m a moron and sold my thrown weapon when I got a nifty gun, forgetting that you need a thrown for the FoK. Rats.

    Mut is working well, and with my rogue at poison hit cap and plenty of mastery, i’m usually sitting pretty decent, considering the monsters i’m running with. I’m looking forward to a raid environment where I can really test it out, because the movement factors and strategies thus far haven’t been very conducive to massive dps and damage. I think i was running around 10k in deadmines with a day-old 85.

    Best of luck to ya. I look forward to your impressions. And yeah, I hope our rogue fun doesn’t go away as people get gear. I like feeling useful again.

  10. 13 Reaper
    December 28, 2010 at 8:52 am

    After running heroics and raids for a little while now, I feel rogues are pretty well off, even though our rotations are a little boring still.
    Damage is very competative as long as I get to stay on the boss, many encounters feel somewhat rogue unfriendly and redirect simply isn’t available often enough to make much of an impact.
    Our CC is needed, although heroics are already starting to feel too easy again, most of our members got their heroic dungeon drake within the first week of hitting 85 and yesterday we did SFK from the trash after the first boss to the last boss with our tank afk…
    In general, I am sure rogues will work out okay as soon as you start worrying more about dps than encounter mechanics, though I still wish they’d given us something that actually alters our rotation (though being energy starved if you drop your bleed is a nice change).

    • December 28, 2010 at 10:19 am

      I have run a grand total of three heroics now, and I agree that we seem to be in a pretty good place. My damage is good, but on bosses where there are a lot of adds or target switching the other classes can out-dps me. That’s the way it should be.

      I still think heroics are challenging, but I’m at barely-enough-to-queue gear. I did notice that in three heroics I only used Redirect twice and Smoke Bomb once. That’s not a good sign from our highest-level abilities.


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Armory

Dinaer - 90 Assassination Rogue (US - Sen'Jin)
Derence - 90 Prot/Ret Paladin (US - Sen'Jin)
Metius - 90 Shadow Priest (US - Sen'Jin)
Liebnitz - 90 Arcane Mage (US - Sen'Jin)
Fastad - 90 Subtlety Rogue (US - Sen'Jin)
Darishin - 90 Resto/Balance Druid (US - Sen'Jin)
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